Episode 125: Terminal Ballistics

This episode is posted at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1_IXxJp4Ik. Special thanks to Mr2ndAmendment for indexing it.

Episode bookmarks

• Podcast intro and introduction of the panel and their backgrounds

• Misconceptions about terminal ballistics

• Properties of duty/self defense ammunition of most importance

• Roland’s take on barrel length’s relationship with penetration, and barriers

• Doc talking on LE’s experience going from FMJ to Gold Dot

• Why birdshot for home defense sucks, and looking at LE gun/ammo selection as a guide

• Buckshot enters the discussion

• Slugs are now discussed, in the context of residential areas/home defense use

• AR15 as a prime choice for home defense and why

• Limitations and weaknesses of shotguns for home defense

• Mike and Doc talking on challenges within LE agencies and Mil in understanding terminal ballistics

• Roland discussing the origins of misinformation about terminal ballistics within LE/Mil

• Specific talk on the Glaser Safety Slug and why it sucks

• First mention of defeating cars/car doors as barriers, leading to the old negative image of Mini14/AR15 for LE

• Don’t underestimate frangible ammunition

• LE agencies not using FBI resources (for free) to learn more info for weapons/ammo selection

• “backyard testing” of projectiles versus actual FBI-grade gel testing

• Ammo selection first, then finding a gun the agency should adopt and why it should be in that order

• AR15 home defense ammo selection, and how it differs from the ammo selection for a LE patrol rifle

• Roland’s liquor store shootout, and knowing what your bullets will go through and how cover/concealment differs

• AR barrel length and how it should help dictate proper ammo selection

• Definition of “barrier blind” property of projectiles

• Defining of terms; internal, external, terminal, and wound ballistics

• SS109/M855 “Green Tip,” what it was designed to specifically do, and why it suffers if not shot from a 18-20” barrel

• Bullpup rifles and why European military forces wanted them with regard to M855

• Chuck’s take on the original purpose of M855, and the consequences of making ammo to win a contract

• Chuck on FBI testing, and LE ammo selection needing to be a better-informed process

• The media vilifying military 5.56mm ammo while common hunting ammunition is far more destructive

• Roland’s insistence that the AR15 is an optimized “killing machine,” and the pro-gun community needs to be forthright about this, but they should not at all be banned, and the media’s lack of knowledge

• “Going postal,” mass shootings, and Roland’s ideas as to why they’ve become more common, and they will continue

• Discussion of “assault rifles” in shootings, and how much more destruction would occur if hunting rifles/ammo were used

• The shortcomings and illogical approach of driving gun laws with emotion rather than knowledge and truths

• Conundrum of pistol ammo potentially being an over-penetration concern more than AR/carbine loads

• The .380 ACP enters discussion, and the particular challenges with the round itself, and the guns chambered in them

• Doc talks on the importance of choosing reliable, consistent ammo and ammo held to strict Govt requirements

• Going into the weeds of .380 defensive choices, basically only being able to choose a “least worst” option

• “Little man” guns, non-permissive carry environments, paranoia about over-penetration that may not be real, versus real over-penetration concerns

• Issues with .380 ACP reliability in various gun offerings

• Pistol barrel length and bullet weight combinations, Doc argues what’s most important in choosing loads

• The importance of LE agencies having several approved loads for ammo availability concerns

• Chuck on 9mm 124 gr +P versus 147 gr loads and where each option thrives

• Conversation moves to long range shots, and how accuracy then starts to outweigh terminal ballistics priorities

• Evolution of 9mm projectile construction/design and the gradual downfall of .40 S&W

• Chuck shitting on the Glaser Safety Slug, handgun supremacy fantasy, the constant search for the “magic bullet,” the emergence of “fad ammo,” the resurgence of 9mm

• Shot Placement enters the discussion, Doc advocates for higher mag capacity for lots of hits

• J.L. Bourne’s introduction via Roland

• Subsonic rounds with suppressors enter discussion with the MP5SD origin story (The “Bee Story”) as told by Roland

• Bill Blowers comes in with Chuck and they talk about the importance of test-firing duty ammo

• Doc drops the bomb on the use of subsonic rounds with suppressors for LE use, and continuous misinformation within LE agencies on round selection and SOP for officers in a shoot

• Suppressor use for SWAT with unknown or often ignored considerations

• 300 Blackout enters discussion, the shooting of sentries/dogs in LE operations, LE should stay away from subsonic ammo in long guns

• Ultimate smack down on pistol-caliber carbines/long guns

• Dumping money on training versus having a plethora of guns and calibers, CCW/EDC gospel, prioritize mastery rather than chasing the next “fad ammo”

• 22 LR out of rifles actually doing work -don’t underestimate it, with crazy Roland story of .22 rifle getting shit done

• Have a gun, preferably a long gun

• Accuracy standards verses man-killing power for a patrol carbine, understanding the balance/trade-off

• Different calibers performing the same penetration standards

• Ballistic shields being a huge asset to LE

• Smack down of 4.6mm/5.7mm for LE and home defense, and a discussion on where/how it does thrive

• INTENSE “5.7mm in the Ft. Hood shooting” discussion, Beretta M9/115gr FMJ verses FN FiveSeven, disarmed US Military service members on military installations

• Fighting mindset in an active shooter situation

• Pervasiveness of ballistics myths and misinformation

• Discussion of how many rounds/volume of training officers get and proficiency among LE, keeping skills sharp

• The importance of handgun training and how pistol skills require the most training to stay sharp

• Shit can happen at random, even in an unsuspecting or “low-threat” setting, the low-capacity/no-reload carry option is risky

• Handguns are tough to be good with, pistol marksmanship is not common

• Accuracy in shooting versus speed, and what’s most important

• “Transcending ballistics” and how experience counts

• Difference between being fast and being proficient